[00:00:00] Speaker A: Rogers comes back and throws for Wilson, who's open, and it goes over his.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Head, but he's mad that he missed that one.
[00:00:08] Speaker A: Rogers, quick throw.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: It's intercepted.
[00:00:13] Speaker A: Stefan Gilmore gets the jets again.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: Three, two, one. Here we go.
[00:00:23] Speaker A: Well, that was the moment all hope was lost. And of course, it had to be freaking Gilmore. Another brutal loss for the New York jets. They fall to the Minnesota Vikings in London, 23 to 17.
I am your despondent, dejected, miserable host, Raz Guevara, along with my equally miserable, equally despondent co host, Richard McLeod. Welcome to just, just the podcast powered by RCG Digital media. Rich, no sense in delaying the inevitable ban. Let's just jump into this fun episode.
[00:00:57] Speaker B: Holy shit. If you're sensitive to cursing, this might not be the week for you, because, I mean, despondent is truly a word for the people who watch on video. We usually put an adjective after our names to describe how we're feeling. We never actually talk about it beforehand, and we hopped on and we both had to spot it next to our names because, I mean, we're recording this early Sunday afternoon, so pretty much, like, right after the game, I think it's been less than an hour since it ended. And, I mean, what a load of absolute poor shit. I don't even know where to start.
It's so. It is such a Jets performance in that they start off slow, which they always do under Robert Sal. They've gotten off to one good start in five games now this season, and it was the Patriots game. That's it. Patriots suck.
And they make you feel like shit for a half. You kind of already concede that they've lost this game.
It's the jets, right? Like, it can't just end there. You're not just mad that they played a bad first half. No, they tease you. They get you back into it in the second half. Oh, Sam Darnold's playing like garbage. Oh, the defense is playing pretty well. Oh, we get to touchdown here. We got to play here. We got to stop there. Maybe we make this a game. The game gets all the way to three points.
Defense, of course, has their one letdown drive of the game where they can't get a stop. They do hold it to a field goal. So they at least make it possible for the jets to drive down the field for 70 yards, score a touchdown, win the game.
Rogers had the chance to do this last week when they were only down by three. They don't get it done. You're like, all right. It was rainy. They played like, crap. A lot of other things went on. Maybe you give them a pass. There was a lot going wrong, but, like, this is the moment. Makeup for last week. This is why you get Aaron Rodgers. They drive most of the way down the field. There's a play where he misses. Wilson wide open, down the, down the seam, along the sideline.
I know he's getting, like, pressured. It was definitely not a scripted play, but I tweeted right after it.
I hope this play doesn't haunt my dreams for the next week.
And I think it was maybe three plays later, throws an interception on a ball where Mike Williams, like every other stupid receiver on this team other than Allen Lazard, who can't catch a ball, doesn't look for the ball, gets intercepted by Gilmore, as we heard in the open, and the game's over. So it's like, it felt like the jets lost the game several times, not just once, because that's how they have to do it to you. And I'm just like.
I'm completely disgusted. That's the most angry I've gotten over a jet game, I think, in a while. I don't know that I got this angry last year, especially once Rogers went down. And, I mean, when he threw the pick, it was just kind of this anger of like, I knew that somehow, some way, they wouldn't score. And I'm also mad that I let myself believe that maybe they would.
And, yeah, I just. I feel miserable today.
[00:04:05] Speaker A: I mean, I think I crossed over the anger portion, and I've entered into the indifference portion. Right. I've. I think worse than feeling angry about something, you are passionate enough to start a podcast and write and follow and. And pour your heart and soul into it.
Once you get to the point where you're indifferent, that's when you're like, whoa, something. Something's up. You know what I'm saying? And as this game is going along, I was getting angry at the performances. I was getting angry at the bullshit calls. I was getting angry. And then I got a little bit of hope. I was like, oh, we have a shot. You know, we have a little bit of life, like the Maxwell song. There's a little life left in us. And then it was just snuffed out in this fashion that I'm so used to. And it's so familiar.
It wasn't supposed to be this way. This was supposed to be what we went away from when we got Aaron Rodgers right last year. Everything that we were like, oh, if we only had a competent quarterback that could bridge the gap. You know, we have a shutdown defense. We have everything that you would want to be a complete football team. All we are is a quarterback away, and it's, it just. It's the same thing. It's the same thing over and over again. I don't know what it is about a football player once they put on a New York jets uniform that they just revert back the same quarterback, the same foolish mistakes. Look, look, man, we played it whale of a game defensively. How many times did we say that last year? Oh, our defense gave us a shot. We limited Sam Donald to 14 of 31. We made Sam Donald look like Sam Darnold when he was with us. And, you know, and, you know, it's, it's. It's no exaggeration to say we lost this game to our quarterback play. And when your quarterback throws three picks, one of which is scored, you know, for a touchdown, the other way, you're not. You're going to seldom win any games, and it's not. It's not supposed to be this way, rich. It's not. It's. It is. And I don't know, man. I don't know. Like, I don't know. What, there's. What. What can we do? Like, short of, like, you know, just fucking punting the rest of the season and hope we get shadow Sanders or some shit? I don't know, man. I I'm like. I'm just, like, despondent is the right word to describe. I'm just, like, completely, like, beaten down. Beaten down that I can't even be angry anymore. I'm just like, you know, I'm about to crawl into fetal position and just, you know, go lay down with my dog, who hasn't moved in an hour. I got to check on him, make sure he's still alive.
It's just shitty, man. It's absolutely shitty feeling.
[00:06:44] Speaker B: It's miserable. And, like, the juxtaposition of this, too, is, which has been really interesting and also frustrating, is on the baseball side of things. Anybody who's following what the Mets are doing, we've been writing a lot this week about how the Mets, after it took me personally a while to kind of get on board with it, are letting you unlearn all of the trauma while the nets are, like, pounding it back every single fucking time. And we thought that Patriot game was the shift, but that was, like, the.
[00:07:20] Speaker A: Last glimmer, and it's the lucy moving the football away right before we kick it. It was like, oh, that Patriots game. Oh, we finally turned the corner.
[00:07:30] Speaker B: Nope, nope, nope. It's like it made. It makes the Broncos game and this game sting even more. Like, I know the Vikings were undefeated, but it's like, the Vikings did not win that game. The jets lost that game. Did the Vikings do a single thing in this game that impressed you?
[00:07:46] Speaker A: No. Once Aaron. Once Aaron Jones went down, they proved the old axiom that if you can't run the ball, you seldom can pass the ball, which is our major problem. We can't run the ball to save our lives, and we're expecting for Aaron Rodgers to carry us on his 40 year old shoulders. And as you can see, it's just not that we. We lost this game because of poor quarterback play, period.
[00:08:08] Speaker B: And a lot of self inflicted wounds.
[00:08:11] Speaker A: Too, and a ton of other self inflicted wounds. But, like, all you want is a chance to win the game. All you want is a chance. And you had that chance. Your defense gave you that chance. And your 40 year old quarterback was unable to execute well along along with the wide receivers and a whole bunch of other stuff. But, you know, it's just difficult. It's difficult to look for silver linings when everything looks miserable and bleak. But every week, we force ourselves to give game balls to the contributors we feel that deserve them. Rich, I know it's difficult. I know it's difficult, but who are you awarding your coveted McLeod game ball to?
[00:08:53] Speaker B: Do I have to? It's my first question.
The game all go to us.
[00:09:00] Speaker A: To us for fucking mustarding and fighting through this podcast.
[00:09:03] Speaker B: Maybe for starting a stupid podcast for this stupid team.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: Listen, literally, you could have started a podcast on the Mets, on the New York Liberty, on the Yankees, on the Knicks. But no, we chose to do this.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: Awful.
But if I must, I believe this will be the second week in a row I do this. But it's gotta go to DJ Reid for me.
He totally shut it down again. The one or two past interference calls on him were absolute nonsense. There was one where he didn't even touch justice. Jefferson. Justin Jefferson literally pushed him, and they somehow called it on Reed, which was insane. But overall, he totally shut it down. Justin Jefferson was really frustrated by the jets coverage, which wasn't just Reed. It was kind of like a whole team effort with the way they scheme their defense. But I was watching the post game interview. He was really frustrated despite them winning. He was pretty annoyed. Kind of like low key ripping their offensive effort today. But, yeah, two games in a row where I thought, DJ Reed, absolutely the best player on the field for the jets, overall, let alone their defense.
Pay attention. Sauce Gardner.
Yeah, so my game ball definitely goes to, to Reed again.
[00:10:27] Speaker A: I mean, it's, it's, you know, it's tough to say that he had a bad game. He had six receptions for 92 yards, but on 14 targets, that's a lot. I mean, he was frustrated. He threw his helmet in the sideline. And again, I agree with you. The secondary is the reason why we were in this game. They played a well of a game.
Sauce played well, but he continues to lack those impact plays. Lack those, those, those plays that, like, you know, just energizes the team and.
[00:10:56] Speaker B: Dropped an exception in the end zone. And they scored their only touchdown after that.
[00:11:00] Speaker A: Exactly. So he has continually, like, lack those impact plays. And a player who I'm giving my game ball to has come in and, you know, in spelled sauce, spelled DJ Reed when he was out. And he's just seemingly comes up with an interception every single time he plays. Brandon Eccles, who's a, who's a tough, tough, you know, member of our secondary, our secondary as a whole, could, anybody could be given a game ball. But, but again, those impact plays matter in football. You know, I used to coach with a wonderful coach by the name of Stefan Romero who'd always say there are five plays that always decide a football game. Five plays. And if you can win three out of those five plays, you put yourself in a good chance to win a football game. And coach, coach Steph would be very, very proud of Brandon effort today. He made one of those impact plays late in the fourth quarter. Ten minutes to go. Gives us a shot, gets the ball back, energizes the team, energizes the offense, and, you know, it's all for not at the end. But he, he deserves, he deserves one of the coveted Guevara game ball. But anyway, let's, as we do every week, we dive into four different talking points coming out of the game, each corresponding to a quarter of football. And as miserable, as miserable as all the quarters were this week, there is only one question left to ask. Rich, is the season over?
Look, man, there's no sugarcoating it. There's games. We have the Buffalo Bills. We play at Pittsburgh.
And is it too early to think that the season might be over? What do you think?
[00:12:47] Speaker B: I have to do? Like, a really a lot of heavy lifting here mentally, because logically, no, of course, you know, they're, they're two and three.
Like, mathematically not too hard. As of right now, we are recording this, like, pretty early on Sunday. So we don't know what the Bills outcome is going to be, but they are trailing by a couple scores to Houston right now. So they could be three and two.
So the division and obviously wild card could all be in play with plenty of season left.
But if the jets are going to play like this, they are not going to do anything this year. And today was a lot of self inflicted wounds by players. But again, it all comes down to coaching. Coaching is the reason why this team is two and three instead of four and one. That is a huge fucking impact. And we saw it again today. They come out in these games with Robert Salas, their head coach. Doesn't matter what the OC is, even though Hackett is continues to be one of the worst offensive coordinators we have ever seen here, and we have a huge laundry list. Maybe that's a bonus podcast we'll do one day. It's all the horrible offensive coordinators for the jets over the last 20 years.
Hi, Brian Schottenheimer.
[00:14:06] Speaker A: Don't say that name.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: Wouldn't you kill for him right now, though, because he never had a quarterback other than the. I think he was here for the far of year, but other than that, not much. But it's just so frustrating to watch them get off to these slow starts against the 49 ers, have a bad first half against the Titans, have a horrible entire game against the Broncos, and then dig yourself into 17 point hole in this game and they weren't able to overcome it, and they should have been able to, but they really made it hard on themselves. They completely abandoned the run. I think there are so many issues with that. Of one, they're just not like scheming the run well at all. They're not utilizing their talent in the right way. They are running from the fucking shotgun on fourth and one with Garrett Wilson off the field. So you're not even hinting at a threat that you might do something weird that gets stopped that cost just three points in a situation where they probably should have kicked the field goal, and that's an entirely different situation at the end of the game as well. There's just so many things you can point to with the coaching, and we talk about it every single week, but it's the biggest key. I mean, two wins. Like, it is the difference in two. Like, there are not that many teams where coaching is that big of a difference in a tangible way, where you're like, we could be four and one, and so we're two and three and we're asking the question in this podcast, is the season over.
[00:15:42] Speaker A: I mean, you can just look, look at the team we played today. Look at the team we played today and the difference that coaching actually makes, right? Sam Darnold is supposed to be their backup quarterback. There's the player that they drafted to be the, their quarterback goes down at the beginning of the season or before the season even starts. And Kevin O'Connell just makes it work. Makes it work. He's one of the best coaches in the NFL at scheming from an offensive side of the ball. But he's also like, you know, he improvises, he, he adjusts. And he, and you seldom seem to think that they're out of a game. They've been playing really, really well, but it seems that they were just waiting for us to kind of like self destruct, kind of like the same way last week. The Broncos were waiting for us to make those critical mistakes, not allowing bone to do anything more than just don't turn the ball over. Just wait. Just wait. Just wait. They'll do something. They'll make a mistake. And, and we just, we just seemingly are a team looking for answers. We don't know how to run the ball. It takes so much brainpower and so much effort to get Garrett Wilson to have a decent game. It takes a career high 22 targets. 22 targets. And the reason why we lost this game is because you were forced feeding the ball to Garrett Wilson. And I get it, you need to jump start your wide receiver one. But when you do that, you don't build a chemical chemistry with Mike Williams. And when the game is in the line and you look for him, he doesn't even turn his head around. Right? And it's, and it's, and it's the, these mistakes that just seemingly cost us the game every single week. Every single week. And then you have Robert Salah coming out post game with his toxic positivity, saying, hey, it's only five games. We have a long way to go, guys.
You know, like, it's just, and if.
[00:17:29] Speaker B: You ask me, for the second straight week, Robert Sala said something and then got immediately embarrassed by one of his own players because those curious Salah said, quote, after the game, it's early, we're five games in. We'd like to be better. We have a long way to go. That was in response to a question of what you would say to jets fans, which honestly, fuck you, is my, are you serious?
And then Quincy Williams, after they came, talked about accountability as well and very different tone.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: What's the mentality of this team right now. Like I said, people got to start taking accountability, bro. People get tired of hearing the same thing every week.
[00:18:11] Speaker B: What do you need to work on?
[00:18:12] Speaker A: I'm tired of saying the same thing every week. For me, I need to start working on being the leader more.
That's my thing. And I mean, listen, that's, that's the reason why the question is a fair one. Is the season over when your players are not on the same page as the coach time and time again and the, the head coach is saying cringe worthy things with his. I keep going back to this term, this toxic positivity. That is not helpful. It's not helpful. We've talked about it time and time again how Robert Sala lacks this thing that is meant to make players better.
And the juxtaposition is so obvious. It's just so weird. The two opposite end of the spectrum. The same thing happened last week with Aaron Rodgers and the questioning of the, of the, you know, the cadence. I mean, it's just self inflicted wounds. Even when the game is over, you're creating a stir when you don't need to.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: Yeah, it just seems like.
Yeah, there is like a dichotomy, a division, and, like, I honestly think it's a bad sign if your players are holding themselves more accountable than, than the coaching set. Like, it just kind of makes you look weak and obviously not on the same page. And, yeah, I don't know what they have to fix because it's almost like everything. It's mostly offensively.
I thought that despite getting called for, I believe it wound up staying at seven penalties in this game. I did actually think they were mostly disciplined today. The only real egregious penalty, I thought was the delay of game on a first and goal right before their final touchdown of the game wound up not mattering. But that was like, again, one of these things where you're yelling at your tv as you see it go, like, taken down from five, you're like, snap the ball, snap the ball, snap the ball. And it's just like, do not appear to be paying attention to the clock or being aware of it at all. The jets tried to, like, fake that. They called the timeout by sending the water guys, which did not work, you know, but overall, I think they improved that. But, like, the script calling in these games, you know, when you start an NFL game, the first series, maybe two series, depending how long it is, offenses are mostly like, have a scripted plays that they come into the game with, and then as the game goes on. It's a little bit more like calling plays as the game is like, dictated. I think Nathaniel Hackett is one of the worst script callers I've ever seen. Like, it's like DC universe level bad scripts.
Like, they come out of every game. They're one of the only teams this season that has not scored points on their first drive of the season. I believe only five other teams in the NFL have done that this year other than the Patriots game.
And even then I think they only scored maybe a touchdown. They just.
The first quarter ends and it's like jets have no points, which is what we were used to having when Zach Wilson was the quarterback or Sam Darnold was the quarterback or Bryce Petty or lame the guy. And I think that's an issue. I think the way that they use personnel as a problem, I think Keith Carter is a joke. I don't know why he's on the coaching staff at all.
It's just like such a laundry list of things and they have to fix all of it and I don't think they're capable of it. It has cost them two games and they really trying to out talent their own coaching. Like, that's the only way they're going to win games is if their talent supersedes how bad their coaching is. And I, through five games, it has not happened more than it hasn't. And it's.
It's a precarious situation because they have tough games coming up and I have picked the jets to win. I think every game this year, you're not going to see me do that for a while. So, like, can they turn things around? Yeah. Do I think they're going to? No, I don't.
[00:22:29] Speaker A: I mean, and that's, and that's you. You made. You made a very, very important point there that I think we need to get back to. It's the jets need to overcome their coaching in order to win. And paper across the board, the Jet secondary is incredibly more talented than the Vikings secondary. That goes without question from, from player to player. The Jet secondary is more talented.
Look how difficult it was for Garrett Wilson to match Jefferson's game today. The jets secondary was incredible. Incredible. They were switching. They were playing to a man. They were playing their scheme properly. But look how difficult it was for Garrett compared to Jefferson. Jefferson was being schemed open. There were a couple of big plays that were created out of the schemes, out of these bunch formations, out of these crossing patterns that, you know, that created problems for the jets defense. Kudos to them. They played a really well, well game, but they were their offense. The Vikings offense was completely way better than the jets. And if it's not for Aaron Jones going down there, the drop in their running game, we might be looking at a completely different game here.
[00:23:39] Speaker B: Yeah. And to your point, before we move on to the next segment, this is definitely Garrett Wilson's best game of the year. We'll get to him. Yeah, later in the show. But to your point of like, Garrett Wilson had a really good game, but it was still really difficult on him. He caught 13 catches today, but he was targeted 22 times at 101 yards on those 22 targets. It is the second lowest amount of yards for a pass catcher with 20 plus targets in a game going back to 2006.
This is from ESPN. The only other time it has happened was Devontae Adams and Aaron Rodgers in 2015. Nathaniel Hackett was not the coordinator then, but interesting connection there.
[00:24:23] Speaker A: So, yeah, great connection. And I mean that, that pick six was a direct result of Aaron Rodgers force feeding Garrett Wilson. That was a crossing pattern that he was trying to hit him. It was an intermediate route for Conklin and Wilson on the, on the high low concept and he tried to hit him and they just read it. They just read it. When you try to go to the same player every time, they're just going to. The defense is going to make it easy on the defense.
But unfortunately we could, we could spend, you know, the entire podcast on this topic because I do feel like we are in a shitty, shitty position.
But this game came down to two men down the stretch. It came down to Brian Flores against Aaron Rodgers and the hall of Fame quarterback came up short. And he is our second topic of discussion in our second quarter.
Aaron Rodgers became the 9th quarterback in NFL history to reach 60,000 passing yards.
When the game hooked in the balance, he toss his third interception to Stephen Gilmore of all players.
What do you think is wrong with Aaron Rodgers at Jets passing attack?
[00:25:32] Speaker B: A few things. I think obviously we're not going to keep going over this, but the coaching and the play calling is just horrible, horrible, horrible.
He got killed by a bunch of drops today.
Alan Lazard had four.
I think Braylon Allen had one. There were a couple of others that I remember that has not been helpful. Obviously there have been a lot of miscommunications between him and the receivers that happened on the game. Losing interception happened with Garrett a few times. Even though they had their best game, there were still a few like shots down the field where it just always seems to be one guy's thinking one thing, one guy's thinking the other.
And the fact that they made him throw 54 times today is also pretty ridiculous.
Hard to win when your offense is one dimensional. At one point in this game, the jets threw the ball 19 straight times, which is pretty nuts. Kind of reminds me of the mark Sanchez like 60 plus passing Christmas eve against the Giants in the Victor Cruz game where you're like, yeah, of course they lost. There's no way you're going to win that when they know you're throwing the entire time.
All of those things a factor. These are like external things that are not just on Rogers. I wanted to get those out of the way first because Aaron Rodgers himself also just did not have a good game. He did not have a good game last week either. His last two games have been quite alarming.
He's getting hit a lot, but when he's not getting hit, he does seem to be tentative at times to throw the ball. There were a few times today where it's like there's a guy rushing at him, there was somebody open and he just seemed to like take the sack anyways instead of the ball, which is very odd to me. I'm not sure why. A month into the year, he still seems to feel gun shy at times. There are a couple throws wherever he did miss the receivers, you know, again, that one that we mentioned, Garrett going down the sideline at the end of the game, that would have probably won the game for the jets again, I know that was like more of a backyard play. Won't crush him for that, but it's definitely going to be what I'm thinking about. But there was even early in the game, he had Garrett on and out to the sideline on the right side, just kind of like hurled the ball out of bounds. The interceptions he threw early were bad. The one at the end was really bad. He should have thrown that ball outside instead of inside where, you know, even though Mike Williams didn't look at it, you would have had a fourth and ten instead of Stefan Gilmore being able to make a play on the ball and the game being over. So that was mistake by him as well, even though he was not on the same page with Williams who gave up on his route. So yeah, it's just kind of, it's a lot of things he.
I think it's a little early to say he's cooked or washed, but he looks like it after the last few weeks.
[00:28:32] Speaker A: I mean, look, I mentioned this in our first episode. If you are expecting Aaron Rodgers to be your mvp and to carry your offense, then you're in the shittiest position you could possibly be right. And that is exactly what is happening week in and week out. Our offensive play calling is mediocre and we are simply reliant on a 40 year old quarterback coming off an Achilles injury who is still shaking off the rust. You can see it on those short throws, particularly on screen passes. Part of the reason I feel like they don't call those as much as they probably should is because he can't hit them. He misses them time and time again. Those short little dump off throws. There's always that touch that is still missing. It's still part of a game that is not all there for him. And you're right 100%. I went back and I looked at trying to figure out what was going on with Garrett Wilson. I went back and I looked at every single target that he and Aaron Rogers had, and you can see it every single game. He just loses confidence in players, loses confidence when they slip and they fall and he just goes away from them. And part of me, at the beginning, before this game, part of me was like, okay, that is how you do it. You don't force anything. Today, he just went on the complete opposite end of the spectrum and starts forcing Garrett Wilson to try to jumpstart him. And that led to a lot of the mistakes. It led to not building a rapport with Mike Williams. Mike Williams had one target in the almost in the first half.
You just completely ignore him and you continue to try to force feed Garrett Wilson.
[00:30:04] Speaker B: The defense forgot that they signed him at times.
[00:30:07] Speaker A: I mean, it's.
[00:30:08] Speaker B: And they actually throw him the ball. He makes the play. Last one, of course, but it's, and.
[00:30:14] Speaker A: That'S what happens when you don't have the rhythm and you don't expect the ball. It's human nature. You're like, oh, it's not coming to me. Why? Like, you know, the game's on the line and you don't want to give Mike Williams, you know, the out on that. Terrible, terrible. You don't even turn your head. And that's a timing thing. That's a timing thing. And then I think in the broadcast, they mentioned that, you know, nobody comes to talk to him during the game, avoid Aaron Rodgers. That level of communication just does not exist and is translating on the field. And it's. And it's just terrible to see again if we are putting our entire eggs in Aaron Rodgers basket. And it was foolish, foolish of us to even assume that a 40 year old quarterback. Yes. A four time mvp, a perennial hall of famer, you know, 60,000 passing yards. Yes, I get all that, but this man is not that guy. You know what I'm saying? And he's coming off an injury. I keep repeating that he's coming off an injury. He's not as sharp. If you look at the film, he's not as sharp. He's just forced, just getting the ball out of his hand because he's tentative behind the line. He's taking shot after shot after shot. I really thought I that the deciding moment in the game was when he, there was that roughing the kicker penalty. He was going into the blue tent and he grabs his helmet and runs back on the field. I said, oh, that's it. This is the turning point in this game. This is the turning point in our season. That's the guy that's going to lead us to victory today. And that's the guy who's going to carry us far into the postseason. Did not materialize, did not not end that way. And he was the reason we lost the game point blank. He's the reason we lost this game.
[00:31:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And you know, it's, it's kind of going to go as a footnote now, but you mentioned like he came off the field, there was a good 30 seconds where you thought he tore something again. Yeah, because he got hit. He was on the ground for a while and then he kind of like rolled over onto his back and has holding his legs up the same exact pose he had when he tore his achilles and his knee twisted. Weird. And he already had a sore knee after getting his ass kicked in the Denver game. And there was a moment where you're like, oh my God, it happened again. And the jets at least avoid that nightmare. But yeah, like he was not good. He definitely seemed like compromised.
We're not really going to be focusing on them a ton in this podcast, but I, I'm really disappointed in the offensive line the last two weeks.
I don't care that Morgan was decided you're supposed to be better than this shit and you've been letting Rogers get the absolute crap beaten out of him. Last two weeks, the blitz pickup's been awful.
They've played the two biggest blitzing teams in the NFL back to back weeks and they have not seemed to adjust to that very well. Rogers also to blame for that. There's been a few very obvious blitzing situations where he just was like holding onto the football and not getting it out quick. And yeah, the untouched rusher was getting right to him and sacking him in pivotal situations. So, yeah, it's.
It's not great. Like, it's just. It's very concerning, and it's really disappointing. And I just feel like, shit, man. Like, that's really what it. Like, I feel like I don't want to do this. I don't.
[00:33:32] Speaker A: I mean, it's. It's. It's brutal, dude. No, I know. It's brutal.
It's brutal. It's brutal to watch, because, again, the more difficult part is the fact that last year, we kept thinking in our dumb, tiny little peanut brains that if we just simply had a competent quarterback, that it would be different. Right. And this season is proving that that's not the case. Maybe there is something. No, actually not. Maybe there is definitely something wrong with the organization being led by Robert Salim. And I'm. That's where I'm choosing to put the blame in, because the way he runs his team is. Is what's causing all of these problems. The lack of accountability I mentioned, like, what is going on in these. In these film sessions where people are just not being, you know, the same mistakes are happening over and over again. Before Aaron Jones went down, how many missed tackles did we have? Granted, like, yes, we played well, second half, yes, there were some adjustments being made, but it's that level of accountability. It's that, you know, giving everybody a pass week in and week out and be like, oh, we still got a lot of season left, guys. Come on. You know, like, that's doesn't inspire confidence that. That a Robert Salah led team is going to make a deep playoff run.
[00:34:45] Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm personally tired of hearing the same.
They're grown men. We're not trying to embarrass them. Like, he says that every. Every time after he loses, go back and look like he has said this several, several times. And I tweeted out earlier this week from the JustJets account, and he wonders why nothing ever fucking changes.
[00:35:08] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:35:09] Speaker B: You can't. If you throw out the tape every week, like, what are you gonna learn?
[00:35:14] Speaker A: Exactly. Oh, that is a good.
[00:35:16] Speaker B: You can learn from failure. And the jets are, like, too worried about, yeah, I making their players feel bad so they don't wind up learning anything, and then they just repeat the same shit every week.
[00:35:30] Speaker A: And, look, that's not to say that a player coach cannot be successful in the NFL. Kevin O'Connell is a perfect example of that. He is a players coach the same way Robert Salah fancies himself to be a players coach. And I know Rex Ryan was a players coach. Rex Ryan was accountable. There was a great article by Jordan Rodriguez and Alex Lewis in the Athletic this week about Kevin O'Connell and his entire philosophy being making the complex simple and his entire coaching philosophy that stretches from every, every lesson, every meeting, every practice is to simplify things for his players. Right. And that overarching philosophy has his tentacles in every simple, different part of the game in the office. And the defense and Brian Flores scheme is incredibly complex, but they still simplify it enough so that players don't have to think and make decisions. That's what happens when you have a coach that instills a philosophy that trickles down to every single member of, of his coaching staff, to every single member of his team.
When a coach does not have a philosophy and does not have, like, the. The leadership qualities to, a, hold accountable, and b, instill, you know, competence in everyone that he is supposed to be underneath him, then that's a failed regime, in my opinion. And Aaron Rodgers is a symptom of the overall organizational failures. Aaron Rodgers is nothing. You know, better is not worse of a quarterback than Sam Darnold, but when you create a system where he is solely responsible for winning a fucking football game, like, it's not, it's, football is not basketball. Football is not baseball, where a simple other one player can win you a fucking game. And Robert Sala and Hackett and his entire fucking coaching staff is. Every week is just relying on Aaron Rodgers to bail him out week in and week out. And a 40 year old quarterback is crumbling under that pressure the same way Breece hall is crumbling over that, under the pressure of all this being the focal point of the offense. Like, come on, dude, it's, it's, it's, it's bullshit, and I'm fucking sick of it. And I just want the season to be over. Please.
[00:37:44] Speaker B: It's October 6.
It's unbelievable.
[00:37:50] Speaker A: Oh, my God. Jesus fucking Christ. All right, man, let's just keep this fucking blame game going. I mean, look, we've talked about the coaching. We've talked about the quarterback play, but one unit that is going to be critical to our success or failure is a wide receiver room. And that's our third quarter topic.
Look, Garrett Wilson had his best game of the season, 13 receptions, 101 yards, 101 very difficult yards, but it took career high 22 targets to get there. And when the game mattered most, Aaron Rogers looked towards Mike Williams, who didn't even turn his head on that, you know, game ceiling interception. Um, what the hell is wrong with our jets receiving core rich?
[00:38:40] Speaker B: Oh, boy. Well, a couple things probably, obviously, you know, we talk about every week, this is definitely the best Garrett Wilson game. They're still not fully connecting. It does feel like they started to figure something out today that they have not in the other games. Like, yes, they were force feeding it to him, but this did feel like for the most part, other than maybe that early interception, this was more just like the opportunities they were giving. So that was positive, even though I would say there was at least two or three first half passes where they weren't on the same page.
That one of the final drive notwithstanding.
But yeah, Mike Williams, whether it's he's not getting open or Rogers doesn't trust him or Hackett's not scheming him properly, I don't know what it is. That's more of like an all 22 film kind of thing to look at. They severely underuse him so far, and the first few weeks, fine. You know, you could throw those out because covering for the injury, he seems like he's pretty much fully back at this point in terms of what he's able to do, but they just ignore him too much.
Roger's definitely comfortable with Lazard, and Lazard has been getting open. The problem is Lazard can't catch the ball half the time. He had four catches today and he also had four drops. He caught a touchdown. He also dropped a touchdown on a drive where they had to settle for a field goal.
He's just getting used too much and something that we didn't even put in our notes, but this is pretty, you know, this is a pretty big deal to me. Malachi Corley, who the team acted like was the steal of the draft, healthy scratch inactive today. He's, I think he's been on the field for less than five plays this year, through five games, and was not even good enough to dress for the game today.
That is a huge problem. And again, underscores Joe Douglas's massive hit or miss track record in the draft. And that's like a third round pick on a wide receiver. When you really needed a wide receiver, that's a pretty big miss. And I think this is beyond like, what the jets have normally done in the Douglas Salah era, which is like slow play their rookies. This is like, oh shit. We didn't do our homework on this guy. We just watched the film and he doesn't know how to run routes, he doesn't know how to make plays, he can't make return. Like, he didn't do well in practice, he did not do well in the preseason, and now he can't even get on the field in these games. When the jets don't have a very deep wide receiver, that is a huge, huge problem and is definitely a contributing factor to this as well. Where it's like you don't even really have a wide receiver for at the moment.
Xavier Gibson is not that guy. He's not even really good at punt returns anymore. I know he had one good one today, but dude's afraid to catch the goddamn ball half the time.
Yeah, a lot of problems. I'm sure you'll have some more x's and o's on it as well. And then we're going to get into the Devontae Adams with it all after that, because that's going to be a huge thing moving forward.
[00:42:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, look, it's, it's just not working and, and the individual accountability is just, that portion is just. The players are simply not playing well enough. Um, like I said, I went back and I looked at every single Garrett Wilson target this season and he, aside from not being on the same page, Byron Rogers is. He is seemingly being bullied at the line of scrimmage. He's been. The reason a lot of those plays look so ugly is because he gets pushed off the line of scrimmage and is unable to get into his route. He's always a step behind. He's not a slow player by any means, but he is just getting out muscled, out muscled at the line of scrimmage and is just unable to recover. His balance appears off. He's. How many times have we seen him slip and stumble and fall? Yes, the ground was wetland today and last week, but that has happened almost every single game. There's a play or two where he just is unable to get his footing. I don't know what is wrong with him. And it's just the inability to get yardage after the catch. He's just unable to make players miss after he makes a reception. There's a couple of plays where if he just makes a defender miss, there's a ton of yardage in front of him and he has been unable to do that. That's Garrett Wilson. Mike Williams, um, is a result of Aaron Rodgers chemistry with Lazard. He's. There's no reason why Lazard has ten targets and Mike Williams has four. I mentioned earlier in the season, I love the look of Gary Wilson in the slot. Mike Williams is the ex. Give me plays of both of those guys on the same side makes the a lot decisions, a lot tougher for the secondary. You have to choose who you're going to guard. None of that. We just don't lack the creativity. And on the Malachi quarterly front, if it's not working, try something else. Like what? What's so difficult? I get it. He's not maybe not the cleanest route runner in practice, but you see it time and time again across the NFL. You just give me a fast guy to run a fly and maybe take the, you know, put some pressure on. How many deep, deep throws did we try today? How many deep, long passes? Everything appears to be just dink and dunk and then just nothing. Give me, just put him in, let him run a fly pattern and just pull the safety up and give me some more operating room. Like, if it's not working, just try it. I don't understand. And I, initially, when we've been talking about the Devontae Adams thing, I was like, no, there's so many other issues with this team. And we, you and I went back and forth in our group chat about that. I said, no, you know, there's too many. We can't run the ball. You know, we can't pass rush at the end of the day. Like, at this point, we're beyond all that at this point. Like, our defense could play a fucking perfect game and we're still lose if we don't score points. And Lazard is not the answer. Mike Williams, who was off up a play claw, he was off limitations this week. You still only target him four times, dude. Clearly Rogers is going to target the players he has chemistry with. He just does not trust Mike Williams and he's barely trusting Garrett Wilson. And after he sees the tape, there's so many fucking, so much meat left on the bone, so many plays where, where Garrett just gets bumped off and just doesn't fight for those extra yard. He's incapable of fighting for those extra yardages, man. But let's, but that's a great, that's a great topic of conversation. Let's switch over to Devontae Adams. Tell me a little bit about some of the rumors this week and what are you expecting as we look ahead to that?
[00:45:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, over the last week, we've been speculating on it, I think, honestly, for the better part of a year, but finally happened where Devontae Adams formally requested a trade away from the Raiders after their really, really bad loss to the Panthers last week. He then supposedly has a hamstring injury. I'm not sure how hurt he really is.
I could see that being a little bit of kind of like leverage or gamesmanship there to force the issue.
Two reports on that. One from Ian Rapaport, who said that Adams reportedly had the jets and the Saints as his top destinations because he has history with both of the quarterbacks there. Obviously Rogers here, but also Derek Carr we played with on the Raiders as the quarterback in New Orleans. And then Albert Breer a couple days ago also reported that teams who are involved in the Adams feet stakes do believe that he is trying to engineer a trade specifically to the jets. So we'll see.
Obviously, for the jets to get Devontae Adams in for this next game against the Bills, they would probably need to do this Monday or Tuesday at the at the latest. They do play a Monday night game so they have an extra day for that.
But yeah, I it feels like one of those things that is just like too obvious to not happen just based on the need that they have overall, they just need like there's not going to be anything that they can do to fix their coaching in the season and there probably is not much they can do to fix edge rusher or their running. Like, the running backs are too talented, so it's not like bringing in another running backs really going to do anything. So the biggest thing that they actually can add is Devontae Adams, which is the best player that you're going to see traded in the NFL this year. It may be for a couple of years at least when it comes to during the season.
And this is kind of the chat that you and I had in our and our group thread where it's like, yeah, maybe wide receiver is not the number one problem, but we now have back to back weeks where the offense has been pretty bad and it's one of those things of just, it raises the ceiling of the offense more. It requires defenses to have to play the jets differently because you can't really load up on one receiver and then stack the box like they've been doing lately. If you have Devontae Adams and Garrett Wilson and Mike Williams out there throwing Conklin who had a solid game today, and then you have Brees and or Braylon in the backfield, it does open things up a lot more. He also obviously has that chemistry with Devontae Adams. I know it's been years, but it's like, it's, you know, I think it's probably a little bit like riding a bike. Those guys played with each other for a long time and Rodgers, like you said, clearly trusts the guys he really trusts and is comfortable with more than these new guys. And I could say that's a little bit of a fault of Rogers to a point, but it is like a chemistry game as well, and this is the way he operates. So I think it can make the offense better. Like it's going to make Garrett better just because he's going to have different kinds of matchups now.
So to me, it seems like a no brainer compensation wise. I don't know if it's going to be like people seem to be talking about like, third round pick. The Raiders are going to see if they can get a second round pick. I don't think the Raiders have a ton of leverage here. That being said, the packers literally had no leverage in the Aaron Rodgers trade, and Joe Douglas wound up giving up a first and a conditional first that wound up being a second because he got hurt last year. So not that he has the greatest track record in a trade like this, but honestly, we have reached the point to me where it's like, we have committed to this. There is no point in half weighing into like, save a draft pick for next year.
[00:49:38] Speaker A: Fuck them picks.
[00:49:39] Speaker B: Well, it's not one. It's really not going to do anything. And if, if the jets don't win this year, they're blowing it all up anyways. And it's going to be years and years again until they even have expectations like they do this year. So it's just like you don't, you know, I'm not saying be reckless, you know, don't give up first round pick if you don't have to give up a second round pick. They definitely don't. But I just think that you have to get it done because it just, it just makes too much sense.
[00:50:03] Speaker A: I agree. I'm telling you, I arrived at the same conclusion you did way later than you did. You had, you had the right idea. I think from jump, it just makes too much sense. And I flashback immediately to a clip from hard knocks last season.
Hey, actually, why don't I play it for you guys?
[00:50:22] Speaker B: Think, man.
[00:50:22] Speaker A: Honest opinion of today.
[00:50:24] Speaker C: Hmm.
I was just talking to twelve or eight and he was just telling me, you know, we had a lot of mistakes in our room today. Just basic stuff, little things, right? Like, we can't have that. And it's all cool right now, but I'm telling you, one day he gonna lose his shit. It's gonna happen. If it continues to go the way it's going right now. Cause if you don't trust you, he's not gonna throw you the ball. I can promise you that. If he don't trust you, he don't not like throwing interceptions. So if he can't trust that you gonna run the right route, he's not gonna throw it. It's just a matter of time. Continue to work and stay in your book and stay locked in so we can get to where we want to go.
[00:50:59] Speaker A: I mean, that, that says it all. If he doesn't trust you, he's not going to throw you the ball. And he doesn't trust, I mean, he doesn't trust these receiving cores. Like, it's just, that's just all there is to it, man. And I was concerned. Go ahead. Sorry.
[00:51:12] Speaker B: I just want to say, by the way, production wise, that is a fantastic clip pull right there. Really, you know, over a year old.
[00:51:21] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:51:22] Speaker B: Quite prophetic and kind of explains a lot.
[00:51:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And look, that's, that's what's going to happen this week. He's going to lose his shit. He hates throwing interceptions. He threw a pick six. He's going to go in there and he is going to hold everybody accountable. And I think this is the week that, that he forces throws his weight around. Um, initially I was, I was concerned about what a trade for Devontae Adams would do for Garrett Wilson's development. But at this point, like you said, but we're not going to fix everything that's wrong with this team. And if bringing in a little extra firepower, particularly firepower that has chemistry with Aaron Rogers, it could only help. I mean, Jesus, it's just there's so many broken things on this team. This is one that we can potentially fix with a trade for Devontae Adams. Anything else you want to say about the wide receiver room before we move on?
[00:52:15] Speaker B: Just that Alan Lazardhouse, after the game tweeted, we gonna get it figured out. Hash. Trustaprocess.
[00:52:26] Speaker A: Oh, you know how I feel about Lazard. You know how I feel. I want to punt him to the moon so bad, dude.
[00:52:32] Speaker B: And it's just, how about you catch the ball, Alan? I saw somebody on Twitter calling him soccer hands, which seemed pretty appropriate for today's game in London.
[00:52:45] Speaker A: Oh, my lord. And look, man, it just, it doesn't get any easier. It doesn't get any easier. The state of our, our wide receiver room is in shambles. The state of our running game is in shambles. Our coaching is in shambles. Our quarterback is banged up and we get the Buffalo Bills next week. On Monday night Football. Let's look ahead in our fourth quarter to our matchup against the Bills.
Like I said, man, the Bills are playing the Texans right now as we record this. What do you expect next week, heading into a division versus a divisional opponent on Monday Night Football?
[00:53:28] Speaker B: More pain, probably.
It's weird because again, it always seems to be the logical brain versus the emotionally scarred brain.
But, you know, logically, jets have matched up well against the Bills the last several years. Even with worse quarterback play, worse skilled position players, they've beaten the Bills each of the last two seasons at home, played them tougher than people expected on the road in Buffalo last year until the game kind of got away.
This game is at home in front of what will be a raucous but probably much more nervous crowd than we saw in the season opener on Thursday night.
[00:54:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:54:18] Speaker B: The Bills again. Maybe they'll come back to win where we are recording this as their game's going on. They're down 17 to three in Houston right now, so they might just be three and two coming off two straight losses. Don't know that I love playing them coming off two straight losses, by the way.
But yeah. Could I see the jets beating them because they kind of have had Josh Allen's number in MetLife Stadium over the last few years. Yeah. Am I going to pick them to win? Like, definitely not.
I said I wasn't going to pick the jets to beat the Vikings. As the week went on, I felt a little bit more optimistic. I think you kind of credit the Mets to that more than anything that the jets did.
But I don't. I don't think I could fall for it this time. I think I need to start protecting my heart again.
Appropriately. In our first ever episode of this podcast, we talked about, like, letting our guards down a bit, and now I feel like I'm starting to kind of build it back up.
[00:55:13] Speaker A: So, yeah, by the way, Josh Allen, six of 18 for 56 yards passing right now. So, yeah, they're ripe for the taking.
But like, I just have. I'm beaten, man. I'm beaten and I've been beaten. I've been at two games. One was an incredible high, incredible victory against a team that I hate, and another one was such an incredible low. I was wet, I got sick.
It was just like one thing after another. And I hate to say it, but I think the New York jets, it's time for us to start seeing other people. This relationship is not working out.
There's a very, very young and exciting New York Knicks team that's going to, you know, play a game tonight. The Mets are even fun. I even love. I was watching the Mets and I'm, like, rooting for them. I'm a Yankee fan, but I'm like, oh, this team is fun. And like, all of you tweeted something very funny. Like, all of the New York sports teams are having some sort of success and are giving their fan bases, you know, something to cheer about in the jets.
Do not. Are making us miserable. Are making us miserable. And I have no hope against the Buffalo Bills next Monday. It's just. I don't know, man. I'm, like, dejected, I'm despondent. I am miserable, and I have nothing positive to say about our football team. However we trade for Devontae Adams, maybe I'll change my mind and maybe I'll be back on board.
[00:56:41] Speaker B: Well, our foolish asses will twist ourselves into a pretzel again and get excited.
Yeah. And speaking of which, you know, if the jets do trade for Devontae Adams, especially these next couple of days, we'll definitely put together a quick emergency podcast reacting to it.
Yeah. Otherwise, I will not be here for next week's reaction podcast. So Roz and our executive producer mark will take that over. I will be in Maine, and my girlfriend will kick the absolute shit out of me if I try to record a podcast.
So I will be missing that one.
[00:57:21] Speaker A: But, yeah, Roz, it's probably for the best. It's probably. Probably for the best. Probably. You know. You know, it's like a. It's like a mental health break, you know, like, you know, you take some time off, don't. Don't check the score. Don't watch the game.
[00:57:34] Speaker B: Well, I will, unfortunately, be checking the score. Watch it. I'll watch it.
[00:57:38] Speaker A: But, yeah, look, man, it's. It's. It's a tough, tough time to be a Jets fan, but as much as we like to assume that the season is over and that the, you know, like, there's no reason for us to continue to watch, and we know, we know we're going to continue to watch. We know we're going to continue to watch and we're going to continue to root for our team, and we are by no means rooting for them to lose or fail. We want them to succeed. We want that, you know, that happiness that, you know, that. That comes with our team winning on the field. And it's just shitty. It's just shitty that we are here again after coming into the season with so much hope, after getting you know, false hope after the Patriots game. It sucks that we are right back looking for answers.
[00:58:27] Speaker B: It sucks.
[00:58:29] Speaker A: Well, any last final thoughts before we, we sign off Rich?
[00:58:34] Speaker B: Let's go, Mets. The only team for now, that I can rely on.
[00:58:40] Speaker A: Let's go, New York. Liberty. Let's close it out against Las Vegas.
With that being said, thank you very much for listening. My name is Raz Guevara, along with Rich McLeod, this has been jets. Jets the podcast. We'll see you guys next week. Not rich, because he's smart enough to go out of town.
[00:58:54] Speaker B: Here we go.
Thank you for listening to just jets the podcast. Be sure to rate and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And check out the Justjets
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